Skyrim Online
We got animations working ! - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: We got animations working ! (/showthread.php?tid=1441)

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RE: We got animations working ! - Rockoria - 07-05-2015 01:05 PM

(07-05-2015 01:29 AM)Yamashi Wrote:  We talked but he doesn't understand why my approach is the only one that will eventually get somewhere, I will let the idea sink in and we will talk more once he hits the wall like I did !

Tamriel Online is at the same state my mod was back in December 2011 once I figured out hard coding everything was not an option.

Here is why hard coding does not work :

He relies on keyboard inputs of every player and sends animation events to other players based on the keyboard inputs, say you press Space -> send jump to people.

So this kind of works for players (does not support modified key bindings, controllers etc) but as soon as you hit non player characters, NPCs for example there is no way to grab the events without going deep in the game's code (which is what I am doing), then if you want to sync the behavior you need to hook the artificial intelligence behavior tree in the game and force it to match what the master wants. And you cannot do that by listening to keyboard inputs...

This kind of project is large scale it needs a decent architecture/net protocol, the very fact that people are crashing while playing is a good indicator that the design is already flawed.

I understand what you mean to an extent, but he already has some things in the world non-player based synced. Locked objects, items dropped by players, time of day etc... I understand actual AI is harder but I guess we'll see how far he gets. A serious suggestion though, you don't have a ton of time by yourself to do things, why not just help him out? Better to have one mod move super far ahead than have two competing developers that won't get anywhere (You not having any time, him doing hard coding only). Just a thought.


RE: We got animations working ! - Yamashi - 07-05-2015 06:59 PM

Time of the day is literally 5 lines of code, item drops as well.
What matters is the combat system/npcs/quests, the rest is only sugar candy.

I have seen his code, it's not up to the standards I set for any of my projects, if he wants to fork skyrim online and build on top of it while I work on the reverse engineering/backend sure but right now it does not look like that's what he wants to do.


RE: We got animations working ! - Rockoria - 07-06-2015 12:50 AM

(07-05-2015 06:59 PM)Yamashi Wrote:  Time of the day is literally 5 lines of code, item drops as well.
What matters is the combat system/npcs/quests, the rest is only sugar candy.

I have seen his code, it's not up to the standards I set for any of my projects, if he wants to fork skyrim online and build on top of it while I work on the reverse engineering/backend sure but right now it does not look like that's what he wants to do.

Ouch, a little too much smack-talking Yamashi XD Alright, I'll see what you're saying. I'll continue to watch both of these, and I guess we'll all see how far he gets. If he does hit this wall you claim he's going to hit, I would give him a nudge or something, nothing wrong with helping another dev.


RE: We got animations working ! - MeGaMaN - 07-06-2015 07:23 AM

(07-06-2015 12:50 AM)Rockoria Wrote:  
(07-05-2015 06:59 PM)Yamashi Wrote:  Time of the day is literally 5 lines of code, item drops as well.
What matters is the combat system/npcs/quests, the rest is only sugar candy.

I have seen his code, it's not up to the standards I set for any of my projects, if he wants to fork skyrim online and build on top of it while I work on the reverse engineering/backend sure but right now it does not look like that's what he wants to do.

Ouch, a little too much smack-talking Yamashi XD Alright, I'll see what you're saying. I'll continue to watch both of these, and I guess we'll all see how far he gets. If he does hit this wall you claim he's going to hit, I would give him a nudge or something, nothing wrong with helping another dev.

At first, i was hyped for Tamriel Online too, but then i talked with Yamashi for a while and now i'm sure my hype was misplaced.


RE: We got animations working ! - Rockoria - 07-07-2015 01:22 AM

(07-06-2015 07:23 AM)MeGaMaN Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 12:50 AM)Rockoria Wrote:  
(07-05-2015 06:59 PM)Yamashi Wrote:  Time of the day is literally 5 lines of code, item drops as well.
What matters is the combat system/npcs/quests, the rest is only sugar candy.

I have seen his code, it's not up to the standards I set for any of my projects, if he wants to fork skyrim online and build on top of it while I work on the reverse engineering/backend sure but right now it does not look like that's what he wants to do.

Ouch, a little too much smack-talking Yamashi XD Alright, I'll see what you're saying. I'll continue to watch both of these, and I guess we'll all see how far he gets. If he does hit this wall you claim he's going to hit, I would give him a nudge or something, nothing wrong with helping another dev.

At first, i was hyped for Tamriel Online too, but then i talked with Yamashi for a while and now i'm sure my hype was misplaced.

I wouldn't take anybodies blind word for it, as they both obviously want to stomp each other out. I would just patiently watch both of them with the information you've learned and just see where they go! That's the only way to really see without bias.


RE: We got animations working ! - MeGaMaN - 07-07-2015 05:38 AM

(07-07-2015 01:22 AM)Rockoria Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 07:23 AM)MeGaMaN Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 12:50 AM)Rockoria Wrote:  
(07-05-2015 06:59 PM)Yamashi Wrote:  Time of the day is literally 5 lines of code, item drops as well.
What matters is the combat system/npcs/quests, the rest is only sugar candy.

I have seen his code, it's not up to the standards I set for any of my projects, if he wants to fork skyrim online and build on top of it while I work on the reverse engineering/backend sure but right now it does not look like that's what he wants to do.

Ouch, a little too much smack-talking Yamashi XD Alright, I'll see what you're saying. I'll continue to watch both of these, and I guess we'll all see how far he gets. If he does hit this wall you claim he's going to hit, I would give him a nudge or something, nothing wrong with helping another dev.

At first, i was hyped for Tamriel Online too, but then i talked with Yamashi for a while and now i'm sure my hype was misplaced.

I wouldn't take anybodies blind word for it, as they both obviously want to stomp each other out. I would just patiently watch both of them with the information you've learned and just see where they go! That's the only way to really see without bias.

So far it seems that Yamashi is not so interested in TO mod. Not anymore. So i don't see why he'd try to stomp TO.


RE: We got animations working ! - Rockoria - 07-08-2015 05:11 AM

(07-07-2015 05:38 AM)MeGaMaN Wrote:  
(07-07-2015 01:22 AM)Rockoria Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 07:23 AM)MeGaMaN Wrote:  
(07-06-2015 12:50 AM)Rockoria Wrote:  
(07-05-2015 06:59 PM)Yamashi Wrote:  Time of the day is literally 5 lines of code, item drops as well.
What matters is the combat system/npcs/quests, the rest is only sugar candy.

I have seen his code, it's not up to the standards I set for any of my projects, if he wants to fork skyrim online and build on top of it while I work on the reverse engineering/backend sure but right now it does not look like that's what he wants to do.

Ouch, a little too much smack-talking Yamashi XD Alright, I'll see what you're saying. I'll continue to watch both of these, and I guess we'll all see how far he gets. If he does hit this wall you claim he's going to hit, I would give him a nudge or something, nothing wrong with helping another dev.

At first, i was hyped for Tamriel Online too, but then i talked with Yamashi for a while and now i'm sure my hype was misplaced.

I wouldn't take anybodies blind word for it, as they both obviously want to stomp each other out. I would just patiently watch both of them with the information you've learned and just see where they go! That's the only way to really see without bias.

So far it seems that Yamashi is not so interested in TO mod. Not anymore. So i don't see why he'd try to stomp TO.

Probably because he's trying to kill all the hype around it. Honestly though, I guess we'll see.


RE: We got animations working ! - leapformula4 - 07-08-2015 07:05 AM

Hi. can I ask you developers something? I am a student learning C++ and was wondering how much c++ u need to know to develop something like this mod?
Thanks
leapformula4


RE: We got animations working ! - MeGaMaN - 07-08-2015 08:05 AM

(07-08-2015 07:05 AM)leapformula4 Wrote:  Hi. can I ask you developers something? I am a student learning C++ and was wondering how much c++ u need to know to develop something like this mod?
Thanks
leapformula4

Different areas of the development require different amounts of knowledge.
Some things can be done with very simple coding, but other things may require time and knowledge.

For an example, Yamashi (main-dev) describes Time-sync as a very simple code, while something like AI sync needs a lot more knowledge, mainly about the way the engine works.

You can take a look at the code in GitHub and see for yourself if it's something you could do @ https://github.com/yamashi/SkyrimOnline/tree/cpp


RE: We got animations working ! - Shokuryu - 07-09-2015 02:37 AM

I like to use () a lot. So try to stay with me.

I'm in no position to properly criticize anyone's coding (or method of it) since I'm no programmer, as most people in this thread. I can't criticize on how much time it takes either (but I comment on that later below). I also wouldn't go so far to call people incompetent (no one should really), as a single person is very much capable of a lot of great things given the effort and time.

But honestly, let's just see what happens this time despite all the past failures so far. At risk of getting booted from the forums simply for speaking from the sidelines, with as little bias as possible, I felt like making this post.

I can say this. As far as I can tell on my side and with my experience of testing both mods, both mods crash my computer often from both mod's very beginning stage to their current state. However, one's actively in development, fixing bugs and adding features that I honestly haven't seen others implement in their public builds before.

The other has regressed multiple times due to time, obvious problems within the team (and other teams as far as I researched), other projects (why would you start other projects (illegal even) when you already got a big yet broken one on your hands is beyond me), life, and finding walls.

I put such a negative light on this team after saying that, but I'm sure the same can very well happen with any other ambitious mod too, including Tamriel Online. Scars and bruises along the way are expected. Most people can only watch, cheer, boo, or help test. But as nice people should do for people that are working for free, is to cheer them on and help test. It doesn't matter who/which team gets this project done anyways, because in the end, we all just want to play Skyrim with each other.

While Skyrim is a single-player game and isn't going anywhere and this work is being done for free (again, something we all should appreciate), it will become less and less relevant as time goes on. That's not stopping anyone from developing mods for Morrowind, but there's no doubt going to be more people playing the latest game in the series, where developing mods there would benefit more people, not that it's always about benefiting the most people.

Skyrim Online has seen very little progress in what's almost 4 years for whatever reason it may be, coding, life, etc. In another 4 years, another Elder Scrolls will potentially be out or almost out, and most of us will have moved on. Perhaps to attempt to make a multiplayer mod out of the next one.

Tamriel Online is most likely going to have problems for time to come, and this goes for anything early in development. But I've seen more synchronization than ever, thus far. All that matters is if he hits this wall, will he persist? We don't know much about this guy, so I'm here again, back in square one, hoping something different will happen. After some talking with him, he seems very confident on how to synchronize npcs and combat.

Course, most people are confident in the beginning, so that means little until it happens. So let's refrain from calling someone's code up to par with anyone's standards until we've seen the end, whether it's a silent/slow end or a loud one. As long as the code works (implying if it does) and gets worked on, we see no difference in how it's done.